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1:05 pm November 19, 2009
| johnnyping
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| Member | posts 15 |
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Put succinctly there is a lot of work that goes into starting a nonprofit.
Some of the first steps that have to be taken:
A mission statement – just one or two sentences relating to what this organization is all about
Board Members – we need to pick people who will meet regularly to run and make decisions relating to the corporation. If we want to incorporate in Delaware, the minimum number of people on the Board is 3
By Laws – we need to draft by-laws that state exactly how the organization is going to be run, we have some leeway with this, but 501(c)(3) puts restrictions on how a the corporation can be run
Articles of incorporation – we need draw up documents that we file with the secretary of state where we plan on incorporating. This document must include:
- A name of the corporation
- An Address for the corporation
- Names and addresses of the board members (they need not live in the state of incorporation)
- Witnesses signatures
After that we need to think a lot about how we want to record documents, legally we have to save all board documents, including minutes and financial documents. There has to be a recording system in place.
We need to develop a budget and accounting system as well.
That's what we need to do to start. After that we file the by-laws and articles with the secretary of state, and start filing with the IRS for an EIN number (like a social security number for corporations) and file with the IRS for tax exemption status.
So what we need to start thinking about:
The mission of the organization
What size board we want to have, and who we want on the board
How we want the corporation to be run
Where we want to locate our corporation (we need an address to incorporate)
How and when we want to meet, and how we intend to preserve documentation from when we meet (not sure yet if meetings can be done electronically or not, inclination is that it's fine provided we still meet the recording requirements)
How we want to run our finances and how we plan on raising money – keep in mind there are filing costs with the state so we'll need to start raising money (and recording) before we file.
I should say, that I'm happy to do a lot of the leg work on this and put this together, with a few disclaimers.
First, I, along with most law students in the country, are in the midst of or rapidly approaching finals. The amount of work I can do right now is limited, but I have a nice long winter break coming up with nothing better to do.
Second, I am just a law student. Granted that you don't need to be an attorney to file and that I'm in my last year and will take the bar this summer, but it makes sense that after I (or someone else) have put together this documentation that an actual attorney with 501(c)(3) experience review the documentation to make sure that its all in order.
Finally, this is going to be a major time and effort commitment. We should all reflect on the level of investment we're willing to put into this project. In otherwords: Are we for real and going to go for this, or are we going to think this is cool for a little while, talk about some space ship ideas and then move on to the next internet meme.
Anyway, question away, I'll answer them as I can. I hope this is helpful.
I'm still really excited about this idea
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1:26 pm November 19, 2009
| Rocket-To-The-Moon
| | Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA | |
| Member | posts 636 |
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Great information, thanks for the contribution.
This sounds like a good topic to discuss in Google Wave. We need to set up a time so that we can discuss these things.
johnnyping: do you want a Google Wave invite? Just PM me your email address and I'll send you one.
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Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering
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2:12 pm November 19, 2009
| Rocket-To-The-Moon
| | Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA | |
| Member | posts 636 |
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As for the state that we want to incorporate in. I think that ideally it should be where our highest concentration of people are located at. At the moment I don't think that we really have a concentration in any one spot, but hopefully this changes soon.
It would be nice if we could colocate everything so that we only have one facility. For the time being I assume our "facility" will be someone's shed. Once things eventually get established I imagine that members will come to the physical location on vacation so they can help construct things and have quarterly meetings in person.
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Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering
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12:36 am November 20, 2009
| Luke Maurits
| | Adelaide, Australia | |
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I am really excited to see steps being taken in the direction of us forming a proper nonprofit.
Is there a cost associated with obtaining 501(c)(3) status? If so how much? If it is considerable, how will we raise it, given that people may be hesitant to donate money to use before we have the status?
Also, you noted that board memebers need not live in the state that CSTART is incorporating in – do they need to live in the US, or be US citizens? Our membership already spans at least 4 countries by my memory.
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Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.
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1:00 am November 20, 2009
| rpulkrabek
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| Member | posts 166 |
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johnnyping said:
Finally, this is going to be a major time and effort commitment. We should all reflect on the level of investment we're willing to put into this project. In otherwords: Are we for real and going to go for this, or are we going to think this is cool for a little while, talk about some space ship ideas and then move on to the next internet meme.
About this. I think you'll find that we are all excited and committed to this project/organization. And as I see it, it will only grow. I am extremely impressed with how far it has already gone. There are people with so many backgrounds and expertise chipping in anything they can. It's amazing what is being done. The website and logo look great. Collaboration on designs is underway. 3D models and math code are being shared. We now have lawyers/law students helping with becoming a non-profit. The way I see it is that anybody that is willing to help can have a roll. I also think that when everything gets in place, there will be a flood of new users if we do it right.
In short, your expertise is needed and much appreciated and the commitment is here :)
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1:54 am November 20, 2009
| Rizwan
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Post edited 7:55 am – November 20, 2009 by Rizwan
A mission statement –
a collaborative space agency dedicated to research and exploration of the solar system.
Board Members –
A trust issue comes up with this, since the board members will be handling the money and the bank accounts. Is it possible to have board members from different countries?
By Laws –
Can someone make a wiki for this?
Articles of incorporation
- A name of the corporation – Collaborative Space Travel and Research Team
- An Address for the corporation – This would be hurdle, if something goes wrong (we working with rockets here) this place would be instantly raided by the police. I am not sure if someone would be willing to risk his address. Is it possible to have the address in another country? Outside the jurisdiction of US laws?
- Names and addresses of the board members – Again can these members be from different countries? Since this project is all about collaboration.
- Witnesses signatures – Shouldn't be a problem I guess. Or am I day dreaming?
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2:28 am November 20, 2009
| Luke Maurits
| | Adelaide, Australia | |
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Rizwan said:
A trust issue comes up with this, since the board members will be handling the money and the bank accounts. Is it possible to have board members from different countries?
I presume the point of the by laws is that we can do things like place tight restrictions on when funds may be released from the bank accounts and if anybody on the board acts contrary to those by laws we can take legal action against them to recover the money. Lawyers, is this accurate?
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Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.
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4:23 am November 20, 2009
| rpulkrabek
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Rizwan said:
A mission statement –
a collaborative space agency dedicated to research and exploration of the solar system.
I'd like to add to this just a bit.
"An open collaborative space agency dedicated to research and exploration of the universe"
It would be nice to have the word open in there and maybe even free, although, I'm not sure how that then ties in with having to pay for materials and such. Also, universe might be better than the solar system, for example, if a branch were created to the astronomers and they started exploring other galaxies and such. This is just a thought
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4:29 am November 20, 2009
| Luke Maurits
| | Adelaide, Australia | |
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rpulkrabek said:
It would be nice to have the word open in there and maybe even free, although, I'm not sure how that then ties in with having to pay for materials and such. Also, universe might be better than the solar system, for example, if a branch were created to the astronomers and they started exploring other galaxies and such. This is just a thought
How about something along the lines of:
"A collaborative space agency dedicated to research and exploration of the universe, driven by open collaboration over the internet and committed to the free distribution of all knowledge acquired through that collaboration"/p>
I'm not at all attached to my particular wording above but I think it is important that the mission statement reflect in some way that we are an "open source" space agency – that our work is done mostly by volunteers, that anybody from anywhere can contribute as long as they have the knowledge, and that everything we learn from doing this will be made freely available to the world for others to learn from.
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Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.
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9:38 am November 20, 2009
| johnnyping
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| Member | posts 15 |
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Post edited 3:41 pm – November 20, 2009 by johnnyping
Luke Maurits said:
Is there a cost associated with obtaining 501(c)(3) status? If so how much? If it is considerable, how will we raise it, given that people may be hesitant to donate money to use before we have the status?
Also, you noted that board memebers need not live in the state that CSTART is incorporating in – do they need to live in the US, or be US citizens? Our membership already spans at least 4 countries by my memory.
There will be a cost associated with obtaining that status. Just filing will the appropriate state will run us a couple of hundread US dollars. In addition, I am just a law student and – while technically you don't need a lawyer to file – it would probably be worth while to have a lawyer familiaer with 501(c)(3)s look over our articles and bylaws to be certain that everything is in order.
As for how we'll raise the money, you can, technically, start functioning as a corporation before filings if you've approved articles and bylaws and have the proper recording mechanisms in place.
Regarding boardmembers – I do not think they need to live in the US or be US citizens. I know there is absolutely no limit on the number of board members we have, so if we want all members can be board members. The bigger catch will be where the officers (CEO, President, Treasurer, Secretary, etc.) live.
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9:43 am November 20, 2009
| johnnyping
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| Member | posts 15 |
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rpulkrabek said:
About this. I think you'll find that we are all excited and committed to this project/organization. And as I see it, it will only grow. I am extremely impressed with how far it has already gone. There are people with so many backgrounds and expertise chipping in anything they can. It's amazing what is being done. The website and logo look great. Collaboration on designs is underway. 3D models and math code are being shared. We now have lawyers/law students helping with becoming a non-profit. The way I see it is that anybody that is willing to help can have a roll. I also think that when everything gets in place, there will be a flood of new users if we do it right.
In short, your expertise is needed and much appreciated and the commitment is here :)
Excellent to hear, the enthusiasm I've seen so far is fantastic. I just wanted to mention that once we file we've got a cash commitment and restrictions by which we'll have to operate, we're no longer working in the world of the hypothetical, is all.
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9:45 am November 20, 2009
| Rocket-To-The-Moon
| | Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA | |
| Member | posts 636 |
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A couple hundred dollars shouldn't be too hard to obtain. I think that we have enough trust among our current membership that many of us would be willing to send $10-20. Obtaining 503(c)(3) status will really give us a stature boost.
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Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering
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9:52 am November 20, 2009
| johnnyping
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| Member | posts 15 |
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Post edited 3:55 pm – November 20, 2009 by johnnyping
Rizwan said:
A mission statement –
a collaborative space agency dedicated to research and exploration of the solar system.
Board Members –
A trust issue comes up with this, since the board members will be handling the money and the bank accounts. Is it possible to have board members from different countries?
By Laws –
Can someone make a wiki for this?
Articles of incorporation
- A name of the corporation – Collaborative Space Travel and Research Team
- An Address for the corporation – This would be hurdle, if something goes wrong (we working with rockets here) this place would be instantly raided by the police. I am not sure if someone would be willing to risk his address. Is it possible to have the address in another country? Outside the jurisdiction of US laws?
- Names and addresses of the board members – Again can these members be from different countries? Since this project is all about collaboration.
- Witnesses signatures – Shouldn't be a problem I guess. Or am I day dreaming?
A couple of things come to mind here:
Regarding the boardmembers, they won't technically be handling the money. Instead it will likely be one of the officers (elected by the board), specifically the treasurer. This is part of the reason that corporations have such strict recording requirements, every penny needs to be accounted for at all times. We should be able to figure out pretty quickly if there is some sort of scandal going on. As Luke said, we'll have easy recourse against a dishonest officer.
By laws – I'm happy to make a first draft of the bylaws and post it to a wiki to be commented on and discussed. I'd like to get some ideas before I do that though, how do we want the corporation to be run? How often does the board meet, how many board members must be present for a quorom, how many officers? What should the officers roll's be, how often do we want to vote for the officers, etc. This will be the governing document and we'll be stuck with it absent consent of our members to change it. Think of it as our company's constitution. If you like I can find a couple of sample bylaws and post them so that everyone can get a better idea of what the document I'm talking about looks like. Edit – Link Here.
Address – Yes the place will be instantly raided by the police, but I don't see that as such a bad thing if something that terrible happens. It is not possible, I don't think, to incorporate as a US corporation in another country. But as I see it, wheverver we end up working, if there is a major explosion, law enforcement will be involved
Board members – handled above, but I don't see a problem with international boardmembers.
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11:01 am November 20, 2009
| Rocket-To-The-Moon
| | Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA | |
| Member | posts 636 |
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Would Google Docs' Spread Sheet work for tracking money? It could be locked so that only the treasurer could edit it, but everyone could view it. Google Docs would also be a pretty good place for general recordkeeping.
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Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering
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11:04 am November 20, 2009
| Rocket-To-The-Moon
| | Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA | |
| Member | posts 636 |
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johnnyping said:
Address – Yes the place will be instantly raided by the police, but I don't see that as such a bad thing if something that terrible happens. It is not possible, I don't think, to incorporate as a US corporation in another country. But as I see it, wheverver we end up working, if there is a major explosion, law enforcement will be involved
This person wouldn't be personally held accountable right? They would just be the point of contact. Doesn't incorporating help to remove personal responsibility should something go wrong?
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Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering
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11:17 am November 20, 2009
| johnnyping
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| Member | posts 15 |
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Rocket-To-The-Moon said:
johnnyping said:
Address – Yes the place will be instantly raided by the police, but I don't see that as such a bad thing if something that terrible happens. It is not possible, I don't think, to incorporate as a US corporation in another country. But as I see it, wheverver we end up working, if there is a major explosion, law enforcement will be involved
This person wouldn't be personally held accountable right? They would just be the point of contact. Doesn't incorporating help to remove personal responsibility should something go wrong?
That is exactly correct. Part of incorporating is to limit personal liability. However, in order to gain such protection, we have to adhere strictly to the corporate form (board, officers, recording, etc.).
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1:34 am November 21, 2009
| Rizwan
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Okay, so moving forward how will we come to a common conclusion that who will be the officers?
Also, any rough estimate on how much money and time would be required to complete all the formalaties including opening the bank account?
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11:02 am November 21, 2009
| johnnyping
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| Member | posts 15 |
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The officers will be appointed/elected by the board at the first meeting. Obviously we can start discussing that beforehand, but the official vote would have to be at the first board meeting.
It seems filing with the state is going to cost around 100 dollars, if we want to get a PO Box for our corporate organization's address (at least initially) that is going to cost us some money a month. We really also need to figure out what state to incorporate in. I live in NY so am more familiar with NY law, but if you guys want to suggest other states, that would be fine as well. I haven't yet had time to look into which state has some of the more lax corporate structure laws.
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1:03 pm November 21, 2009
| Rocket-To-The-Moon
| | Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA | |
| Member | posts 636 |
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The state of incorporation has no bearing on where the operations can occur, right?
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Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering
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2:39 pm November 21, 2009
| gerbal
| | North Carolina | |
| Member | posts 12 |
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Rocket-To-The-Moon said:The state of incorporation has no bearing on where the operations can occur, right?
Not unless we pursue incorporating in a state for the express purpose of receiving some sort of aid targeted at promoting growth of the space industry.
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