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1:01 am
April 12, 2010


Nick

Florida

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Hello everyone!

I'm a recent Graduate from the Florida Institute of Technology with a B.S. in Aerospace Engineering. My main interests are in Propulsion, and would love to help out in any way i can!

nick pantages
npantages@cstart.org

4:00 am
April 12, 2010


rpulkrabek

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Hi Nick,

It's great to hear from you. There are multiple tasks we have, but they basically come down to two main areas we are working on; CLLARE and OHKLA.

CLLARE's main goal is to land on the moon, or, at the very least, make advances in technology to reach the moon. I haven't participated much with this research. Hopefully someone else will give more details.

I have been putting most of my effort towards OHKLA, which aims to send a rocket to the Karman Line. We have done some great work towards this area, and this seems like something that can easily (rocket science easy) be achieved. The biggest done fall we have with this area is with ITAR. ITAR is an intimidating and very unclear thing. The latest rumor is that the laws will change shortly.

Since you are an Aerospace Engineer and have in interest in propulsion, can you explain what you would like to work on specifically and perhaps list what applications (CAD, CAE, etc.) you are familiar with? This would make it easier to collaborate with you.

3:34 pm
April 12, 2010


antinode

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Good to see another Floridian. Do you still live in Florida? I'm in Orlando and would love to see a strong group of Florida CSTARTers so we could meet up and build things.

5:03 pm
April 12, 2010


Nick

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Hey, I have experience with Hybrid Rockets (My senior design project involved building one using N2O+HTPB) As far as CAD I am trained in Pro/Engineer. I would love to help out in motor calculations and design. I have some tools that could be helpful as far as fuel/oxidizer decisions if we have a set of parameters to meet. This kind of thing is my passion and would love to help out in any way i can.

nick pantages
npantages@cstart.org

6:21 pm
April 12, 2010


Luke Maurits

Adelaide, Australia

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Hi Nick,

Great to have you aboard!  It sounds like you are an incredibly handy person for us to have around.

Here's a quick run down on some organisational things you should probably to know to help you get involved quickly and helpfully: basically, we recently decided that the way we had been running our projects so far – basically making technical decisions in an informal way on forums/IRC/etc. based on some limited reading and gut instinct-  was not feasible in the long term.  So we have been working on our Engineering Process in the hopes of coming up with a lightweight system for making decisions in a way that is well documented and well researched.  At the core of this process with regards to making technical decisions (like choosing fuels and oxidisers for rockets!) is the Design Task Tree concept, which you can read about at the Engineering Process Wiki page.

Now, the Design Task Tree for OHKLA has already been sketched out a bit, particular with regards to the hybrid rocket design.  You can see a page so far for propellant choice and one for grain geometry.  Neither page is complete, and both were written by me – someone who is absolutely not an expert and has basically just done a lot of reading, from the web and from text books.  If you could look over those pages and (i) correct any mistakes I may have made and (ii) expand them in any way you think useful, it would be a tremendous help.  There is a page for the ignition system, too, but it's blank right now because I don't know much about this area.  If you wanted to start filling it out, following the general template that's already there (and looking at other pages for guidance), that would be a huge help!

The general idea is that once pages like those are complete, i.e. we have listed all reasonable potential choices of solution to a problem and have the numbers, pros and cons clearly displayed, we make a choice on that particular decision by voting.  We have someone on our team who is hopefully going to start work soon on a web app to allow this voting to take place, but for now it is not there.  There's plenty of work to be done gathering the data to inform our decisions, though!

For what it's worth, at this stage, with what knowledge I have, I am planning to vote (when the time comes) for a paraffin/N2O rocket with a single circular combustion port geometry.  The motivations for this are primarily based around simplicity.  N2O is self-pressurising (removing the need for a pressurant tank and value) and non-cryogenic (removing the risk of valves freezing shut/open, which I have read was a big problem with some of AMROC's LOX hybrids), and paraffin's high regression rate (due to liquid boundary layer combustion) should let us get adequate thrust with the circular port geometry, which is, obviously, the simplest geometry there is.  If you have any thoughts on this, I would love to hear them.

Once again, great to have you aboard, hope you have fun helping out!

Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

6:29 pm
April 12, 2010


Luke Maurits

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Nick said:

I have some tools that could be helpful as far as fuel/oxidizer decisions if we have a set of parameters to meet.


 

Just realised I didn't really address the parameters thing.  We have done some preliminary trajectory simulations (approximating the rocket burn as an impulsive delta-v), and taking drag into account I think we came up with a required total delta-v of about 1500 m/s to break the Karman line (but that's from memory – I will need to look it up.  It is scattered in the forums somewhere and that's a great example of why we need to be working on a more systematic way of…working!).  Obviously you want something more like thrust and burn time rather than total delta-v, I imagine.  My understanding is that maximum efficiency is obtained by getting as close as possible to an impulsive delta-v, though, so I guess we want the minimum burn time possible, with whatever thrust is required to establish 1500 m/s delta-v in that burn time.  Now I realise you need to know the total rocket mass to be able to compute thrust from that – we have an estimate on that too, once again, scattered in the forums somewhere, I think the empty (unfuelled) mass was around 60 kg, based on a ProE model of rpulkrabek's using fairly standard materials for the structure.  I will (or someone should) try to get better values for you if you want them, but these hopefully provide a rough starting point.

Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

9:46 pm
April 12, 2010


Luke Maurits

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Just another quick idea: we are now starting to work on what we are tentatively calling "technical reports".  There is one tech report underway so far, on atmospheric entry.  If you wanted to write a tech report on hybrid rockets, or some particular aspect of them you know a lot about, that would be another excellent way that you could help – it would let the rest of us get more up to speed on the topic so we can get more quality work done.

Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

10:36 pm
April 12, 2010


Nick

Florida

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I'll see what i can do. As for Paraffin, do you have any sources at hand or experimental data? I still have access to my University's research databases so i'll see what i can find regarding Paraffin this week. I have tons of papers on HTPB and experimental results (Stanford did a hell of a job researching it) As for Oxidizer, N2O should really be our only choice. It's safety, simplicity and documented success seem to outweigh its shortcomings when considering LOX or H2O2.

nick pantages
npantages@cstart.org

11:39 am
April 13, 2010


rpulkrabek

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Nick said:

Hey, I have experience with Hybrid Rockets (My senior design project involved building one using N2O+HTPB) As far as CAD I am trained in Pro/Engineer. I would love to help out in motor calculations and design. I have some tools that could be helpful as far as fuel/oxidizer decisions if we have a set of parameters to meet. This kind of thing is my passion and would love to help out in any way i can.


 

I have been using Pro/Engineer to model up the current rocket. It's still far off, but for the time being, it has given us something to work with. The latest files are in our repository. The diameters and lengths are incorrect and we were waiting for appropriate dimension calculations. Perhaps you can help with this. Also, be sure to check out this forum thread.

What sort of tools do you have to help out with the calculations and design? Is this something that other people can get a hold of?

9:50 pm
April 13, 2010


Nick

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I have a great little program that NASA uses called CEA (chemical equilibrium Analysis). You input O/F ratios, Exit Area Ratios, your Ox and Fuel choices and it gives you a break down of exit mach numbers, the specific heat ratio of the exhaust (gamma) Isp etc.

you can make some handy plots such as this for example 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62852/…..ckcea.xlsx

 

 

nick pantages
npantages@cstart.org

7:14 am
April 18, 2010


Rocket-To-The-Moon

Altus, Oklahoma, USA

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Welcome to the team. It looks like you will be of great assistance.

Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering

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