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9:34 am November 17, 2009
| brmj
| | Rochester, New York, United States | |
| Member | posts 402 | |
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Though expensive, titanium and alloys there of have excellent strength to weight ratios, are very resistant to heat and seem to be very good thermal insulators by the standards of metals, if the way my titanium spork reacts to hot soup is any indication. Neither Apollo, nor the shuttle used them structurally, probably because of the higher costs at the time. They are now extensively used in structural applications in high performance aircraft.
I think that we might want to use quit a bit of the stuff, particularly in areas that need to support a lot of weight or deal with heat. The structure of the SM where it attaches to the engine might be a natural application, for example. It is likely to be a net cost savings in some cases because it would lower the mass needed to withstand a given force and lifting things to orbit costs ridiculous amounts. The downsides are that it is less "back-yard-able" and harder to obtain than aluminium and steel.
What does everyone think?
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Main work groups: Propulsion (booster), Spacecraft Engineering, Computer Systems, Navigation and Guidance (software)
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1:12 am November 20, 2009
| Luke Maurits
| | Adelaide, Australia | |
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This is a good point to raise.
I for one would really like to see a start of discussion on what materials we will use for the structure of the CM and SM, as this will be essential to getting good mass and cost estimates.
Surely it can't be hard to find a big table of materials with things like their costs, densities, thermal conductivities, elastic moduli, etc? Given such a table, do we have people here who know enough about the required values of these properties to start ruling things out?
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Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.
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2:40 am November 20, 2009
| rpulkrabek
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http://www.matweb.com
This is a fantastic place to go to find material properties. It's the wikipedia for a materials database. We can find what we want, but we need to be careful because anybody can modify the values. It might be beneficial to register, because then we can do things like compare materials and I think export to programs such as Ansys.
If we want a complete way to choose materials, I suggest we go for some software by a company called Granta (http://www.grantadesign.com/pr…..ucts/ces/). I tried explaining this before. I took a course on materials selection and this is what we used. Basically we give it some inputs such as density, cost, elastic modulus and so forth, then a type of scatter plot is made and we make our selection based on some requirements we give. The downfall is that it does cost and I no longer have access to it. I don't know of any alternative to this.
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2:48 am November 20, 2009
| rpulkrabek
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Upate on Matweb.
A free account allows you to compare up to 3 materials at a time. A premium account, which is about $100/year, allows you to compare up to 20 materials. You also need a premium account to export to FEA/CAD programs.
Go here to see the benefits of each user group (unregistered, registered and premium): http://www.matweb.com/membersh…..aspx#chart
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3:59 am November 20, 2009
| Luke Maurits
| | Adelaide, Australia | |
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Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't paying money for access to constants for materials a little bit…crazy? Surely this information is in the public domain? Isn't it in engineering text books? Or are we talking about extremely exotic materials?
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Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.
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4:12 am November 20, 2009
| rpulkrabek
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Post edited 10:15 am – November 20, 2009 by rpulkrabek
We can definitely stick with the free method of Matweb and be restricted to three materials. We can then compile our own tables three materials at a time. That's not a big deal at all. The benefit of paying, I think, comes mostly from importing these properties into FEA. Deformation in plastics doesn't occur linearly, and for these cases, determining stress/strain isn't done by a constant.
The information is freely available. Paying only gives added benefits.
Although, if you are talking about paying for the Granta software, that's a different story. The software allows you to manipulate the data. We can do this on our own, but it would be cumbersome and perhaps, not as complete.
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8:26 pm November 28, 2009
| Luke Maurits
| | Adelaide, Australia | |
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| posts 1483 | |
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Just read here that titanium was one of the principle metals used in the construction of the Gemini spacecraft, which was popular amongst engineers for its light weight. Seems like it is definitely a winning idea.
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Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.
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