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Starting a 501(c)(3) nonprofit

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4:01 pm
November 21, 2009


johnnyping

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Does New Mexico provide any such aid?

But, no, incorpotation has no bearing on where operations can occur.

Additionally, we are going to have to register (not incorporate) in any states in which we want to start fundraising. This can also cost money.

1:35 am
November 23, 2009


Rizwan

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johnnyping said:

Additionally, we are going to have to register (not incorporate) in any states in which we want to start fundraising. This can also cost money.


So, if we incorporate in NY, can we take donations from California over the internet without registering in california? And the person who donates, will it be tax deductible for them?

4:38 pm
December 2, 2009


brmj

Rochester, New York, United States

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Has there been any progress on this front? I'd like to see this happen as soon as possible, so we can start accepting donations, selling stuff and in general getting things done.

Main work groups: Propulsion (booster), Spacecraft Engineering, Computer Systems, Navigation and Guidance (software)

6:12 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

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Wow, I somehow missed out on a lot of the discussion that happened later on in this thread, we got closer to figuring all of this out than I thought.  I'd like to see more progress on this, too.

Without Johnnyping around to offer advice I'm not really sure what should happen next.

It looks like choosing a state to incorporate in is a major decision we have yet to make.  Given that as yet we don't have more than one member in any state, should we choose based purely on which has the nicest laws?

Rizwan's question about accepting donations over the web from people in states other than where we are incorporated is an important thing to get answered.

It also seems like we will need a few hundred bucks before we are able to incorporate, which I guess means there needs to be an interim period where we sell stuff / accept donations but one of us holds onto the money in a personal account for now.  Is there anyone in particular that we would most like to see take this role?

The biggest problem with this interim period is trust.  Personally at this stage I suspect most people involved in CSTART would have enough trust to give money to one of the core members of the forum, but I don't so much know about, say, Reddit in general, and it may take us a long time to make a few hundred bucks from the input of just the people who use this forum regularly right now.  I suppose it is possible there are a lot of lurkers I'm not accounting for who would also help out, I don't know.

Another alternative – would it be possible for someone to apply for a credit card in the name of CSTART before we are incorporated anywhere?  If so we could use that to pay the incorporation fees and then pay the amount off the card with money we get from donations and sales.  I suspect it may be a little hard to do this, though.

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

6:50 pm
December 2, 2009


brmj

Rochester, New York, United States

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I've been looking at web sites related to this for a little while now, and it looks like the IRS charges a fee of $300 dollars for 501(c)(3) applications, $750 if the "revieved $10,000 or less  on average during the previous 4 years" part requires us to have existed durring those four years. The fees go up by $100 on January 3, 2010, so I think we should try and complete this this month.

I'll have more info and a response to your post latter tonight.

Main work groups: Propulsion (booster), Spacecraft Engineering, Computer Systems, Navigation and Guidance (software)

7:26 pm
December 2, 2009


Rocket-To-The-Moon

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$300 is pretty steep but if it is spread out over a large enough group it shouldn't be too bad.

My suggestion is for one of us with a PayPal account to sign up with ChipIn so that we can transfer money securely. People are more giving around the holidays so now might be a decent time to do this. Once we have the ChipIn set up then we can post that to reddit.

Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering

7:26 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

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Just for clarity, there is a disinction between incorporating as a non-profit and filing for 501(c)(3) status, right?  As in, you can be a non-profit without being tax-exempt?  This is how I thought it worked but I could be miles off base.

If this is the way it works, I guess we only need to worry about the incorporation for now.  That should allow us to take donations, they just wouldn't be tax deductable for the donators?  I suggest this only because I presume incorporating costs less than filing for exemption status.

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

7:30 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

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Chipin seems pretty nice, I see no reason not to use it.

When Rizwan next shows up we should ask him about creating or providing if they already exist image files of our logo which would be appropriate for putting on shirts, mugs etc. at CafePress (or somewhere like it).  Just the logo, with perhaps the full text "Collaborative Space Travel and Research Team" under it, would be fine for this, I think.

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

7:30 pm
December 2, 2009


Rocket-To-The-Moon

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I've sent johnnyping a PM so that he will hopefully be notified of our activity.

Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering

7:37 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

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In order to really know what to do with things like officer positions and bylaws, I think we need to think a little about how this whole thing is going to work going forward.  For now all we've had to do has been doable online, but when the day comes that we have a booster design fleshed out into CAD files and ready to go, how do we start building things?

Do people around the world with the knowhow and tools apply to CSTART for grant money to build things?  Under this approach I imagine we'd give them a small amount of starting cash and get them to post photos/videos of their work and then send progressively larger amounts as they show competence and trustworthiness.  Obviously they sign something first saying anything they build using our money belongs to CSTART.

Or do we buy a shed somewhere and instead pay for people to travel there for long weekends or vacations, and do the work with our facilities, which the results being stored there?  This would cost more money initially as we'd need to set up a workshop, but it also reduces the required trust issues since everything happens on "our territory"/p>

Are there other models that could work?

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

7:46 pm
December 2, 2009


Rocket-To-The-Moon

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Post edited 1:48 am – December 3, 2009 by Rocket-To-The-Moon


Luke Maurits said:

In order to really know what to do with things like officer positions and bylaws, I think we need to think a little about how this whole thing is going to work going forward.  For now all we've had to do has been doable online, but when the day comes that we have a booster design fleshed out into CAD files and ready to go, how do we start building things?

Do people around the world with the knowhow and tools apply to CSTART for grant money to build things?  Under this approach I imagine we'd give them a small amount of starting cash and get them to post photos/videos of their work and then send progressively larger amounts as they show competence and trustworthiness.  Obviously they sign something first saying anything they build using our money belongs to CSTART.

Or do we buy a shed somewhere and instead pay for people to travel there for long weekends or vacations, and do the work with our facilities, which the results being stored there?  This would cost more money initially as we'd need to set up a workshop, but it also reduces the required trust issues since everything happens on "our territory"/p>

Are there other models that could work?


I don't really envision CSTART owning any property, at least not in the semi-near future. I think that the first approach of giving money to people with demonstrated skills is the first route that should be taken. Preferably the money would be given to small teams of friends and colleagues who can easily work together in real life. So far no such group of people exists but the time will come. 

I think that we can get the most bang for our bucks by contracting with some of the large scale amateur rocket builders early on. Rockets are impressive and it will help to attract new people (specifically from the rocket community). I can imagine that they would love building high tech rockets on someone else's dime. 

We also need to have some fine print about what will be done with the money if this all falls through. I think that we would probably donate the money toward some kind of program that promotes science education among children.  

Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering

7:52 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

Adelaide, Australia

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I agree that contracting people who already have building facilities is probably our best bet for early on.  I do think, however, that eventually having our own workshops could be a good idea.  That's probably far enough in the future that we don't need to think about it for now.

Good call on the fine print about what should happen in a worst case scenario.  Donation to science and perhaps specifically space related education seems fitting.

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

7:53 pm
December 2, 2009


brmj

Rochester, New York, United States

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I was thinking we would use a mixture of the two methods. The first aproach will work great for many things, but I was thinking we would also need to either own or have unrestricted access to a warehouse, large prefab barn or equivelent and a patch of land somewhere desolate for test-fireings before all that long, at a bare minimum.

Main work groups: Propulsion (booster), Spacecraft Engineering, Computer Systems, Navigation and Guidance (software)

7:55 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

Adelaide, Australia

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So, I guess the next step would be to start thinking in more detail about how the contracting works?

What will we require from potential contractors before we consider them?

How are the decisions on who to contract for what made?  Does the board of directors vote on this?  Are there specific officer positions related to this who have particular influence?  Do we let the crowd have a say using web polls?

What terms will contractors have to agree to to receive their money?

How will we monitor progress?

What Bylaws will we need to write to facilitate this approach working properly?

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

7:57 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

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According to the list of online members at the bottom of the forum, Johnnyping is online now.  This means we have our 3 most active forum posters and our resident legal expert online at the same time.  Do we want to bring this discussion into a real time medium?  Wave, IRC, Jabber or something?  We can post a transcript or link to a transcript in this thread afterward.

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

7:59 pm
December 2, 2009


Rocket-To-The-Moon

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I'll probably be unable to contribute in real time right now, my Dad just called.

Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering

8:00 pm
December 2, 2009


brmj

Rochester, New York, United States

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Actually, I'm about to go ofline for an hour. My laptop battery is almost out, and there will be no where to plug it in until I am out of my class. Afterwards, I'm up for real time communication.

Main work groups: Propulsion (booster), Spacecraft Engineering, Computer Systems, Navigation and Guidance (software)

8:03 pm
December 2, 2009


Luke Maurits

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No problem, just thought I check, it's a rare moment to have so many people online at once and all attention focused on one issue.  It would have been like a spontaneous "burst"/p>

Starting a new TA job next week, might be busy for a while! Main CLLARE workgroups: Mission Planning, Navigation and Guidance. I do maths, physics, C, Python and Java.

8:03 pm
December 2, 2009


Rocket-To-The-Moon

Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA

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Luke Maurits said:

How will we monitor progress?


Pictures and video are a (contractual) must. We absolutely need documentation, both for proof and for inspiration.

It also needs to be in the contract that no wages are to be paid to workers.

Main Workgroups: Propulsion & Spacecraft Engineering

8:09 pm
December 2, 2009


johnnyping

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Hey all, I'm sorry it seems I've falled off the face of the earth (haha – I wish). In actuality I am in the midsts of finals right now and will be until Dec 21 at which point I'm happy to rededicate myself to as much of this project as I can. Until them, I'm pretty swamped.

Just to clarify what luke said: "Just for clarity, there is a disinction between incorporating as a non-profit and filing for 501(c)(3) status, right?"

You are absolutely correct, but the problem is if we don't incorporate correctly we may not be eligible for 501(c)(3) status later.

I also want to say that Luke is hitting on the exact questions that need to be considered and answered before we incorporate bylaws. Specifically:

"How are the decisions on who to contract for what made?  Does the board of directors vote on this?  Are there specific officer positions related to this who have particular influence?  Do we let the crowd have a say using web polls?

What terms will contractors have to agree to to receive their money?

How will we monitor progress?"

When we get an answer to these we can start to figure out how to implement laws to make sure that this happens.

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